80:  Understanding the Leadership Continuum in Manufacturing- with Jim Mayer

Jim Mayer

Erin Courtenay: [: 00:00:00

People can't speak right now, but I mean, very big with my body language. Um, and then there's been like me, maybe not anyway. What do you guys, do? You [00:01:00] use body language. Are you aware of your body language? Other people's?

Lori Highby: Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. There's lots of studies on this actually. Mm-hmm. You're talking about the power stance, is that what you're talking about?

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. The power stands, I forgot what her name was. Woman. Yes, she did a told like Ted talk on it, right? Yeah.

Erin Courtenay: So do you power stance or what's your power?

Lori Highby: I've done that before speaking engagements before.

Erin Courtenay: Yeah.

Lori Highby: Stand in a mirror, big just to get pumped up. Yeah. Yeah.

Erin Courtenay: Does it work? Do you feel powerful?

Lori Highby: Sure.

Kris Harrington: Okay.

Erin Courtenay: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, I think it's, yeah. Go Kris.

Kris Harrington: I was gonna say, I, I, so when I worked for a manufacturer, and I think I've talked a little bit about pieces of this, I had some phenomenal training, um, uh, myself and other employees in the organization. I had like seven different training modules.

e to understand when people. [: 00:02:00

Yeah. Um, the way in which they look at you. All of and and I had that training repeated to me like multiple times. I wanna say I had it three times, and I can tell you that I fully absorbed it and learned it when I lived in a different country, when I didn't know the language, because now I need to use other, uh, methods to understand the room and what was ha happening around me. And a lot of people will say that I understand this very well and I think it's just 'cause I had to pay such close attention. That's so cool in those situations. So yes, I love that there.

e negotiation training for a [: 00:03:00

So right away it's like there's a level of intimidation there. And I was told to intentionally sit with my legs a certain way, so like sitting almost, you know, like have my, my leg up on my knee. So it like opened my body bigger to show a level of confidence as opposed to like, you know, cowering and being little.

So, um, I thought it was interesting that this, you know, professional negotiator put a lot of emphasis on how I sit at the table during the negotiation.

Erin Courtenay: Yes. Wow, those are such good examples, and I just, I just wanna make a blanket statement to everybody that zoom is not a place to shut down on your body language.

rt of a placid mode on Zoom, [: 00:04:00

So, mm-hmm. I just encourage people, go ahead, relax a little on that camera and let your body language be part of the conversation. So really cool. Yeah. Thanks guys. I love that.

Kris Harrington: Love that advice. Alright. It's time to introduce our guest today. Um, we have with us Jim Mayer, and he is a dear friend, a wonderful man doing some great work for manufacturing.

y through innovative content [: 00:05:00

His work inspires collaboration, empowers emerging leaders and celebrates the human side of manufacturing. A passionate advocate of manufacturing, Jim is dedicated to amplifying the voices of industry leaders and sharing the values and innovations that drive the sector forward. Through his leadership programs, live events and thought provoking media, gym equips professionals with the tools and insights they need to thrive in a rapidly changing landscape.

Known for his authenticity, humility, and innate curiosity. Jim is a sought after speaker who engages audiences with his unique ability to connect people to ideas, opportunities and each other. His commitment to fostering me meaningful growth and innovation continues to shape the future of manufacturing and elevate its culture.

Jim, [: 00:06:00

Jim Mayer: Thank you, Kris. It's always wild to hear your intro. In this kind of a format, right? Uh, I'm not used to it. I love doing intros for guests like you. Uh, and I hope to one day have Lori and Erin on as well. Yes. Um, but I, I'm still not used to having the intro read on me, so thank you very much.

That was very well done. Uh, and I loved the, the. Conversation you all were having, uh, before the intro. That was a great topic to have and so many great insights. I learned a lot about myself, uh, just from listening to the three of you. Uh, because I, Erin, have this self-limiting belief that I am not as good digitally as I am in person and mm-hmm.

with mm-hmm. The group. Um, [: 00:07:00

I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about this. I don't know if I'm supposed to have you.

Erin Courtenay: Not whatever you want, but that's okay. You allowed breaking on the broadcast, breaking new territory, new ground. You are an innovator. And also you have, you know, you have great body language. You're perfect. Yes, yes. I think that's what makes this show so much fun.

I think we tend to make it okay for people to open up. So I think we get a lot of really good expressions. So yeah, we're so happy to have you here. And I am sorry one. I wanna apologize to our listeners because the pre-conversation before we started recording was also really incredibly awesome. But we're gonna keep, we're gonna keep going, so.

Jim Mayer: It, [: 00:08:00

Uh oh yeah. I have, uh, long admired since I first met Kris. And, and she told me about A Broadcast for Manufacturers. I've long admired the show. I listen, I don't have a whole lot of time to listen to podcasts, but this is on the list of, uh, shows that when I do have time, if I'm in a car. Yeah. Uh, and, and just a great show, great conversations.

Absolutely. I, I appreciate, uh, doing this myself. I really appreciate the work that you all put into it. It's very well, very, very well done.

Kris Harrington: Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. You know, it's interesting to bring three people together and a guest. So, um, Lori's done a great job making sure we're organized and, uh, have all the right materials to bring our guests on and, and really let them shine.

So appreciate you saying that.

Announcer: This episode is brought to you by AdCirrus ERP, your trusted partner for cloud ERP solutions. Learn more at adcirruserp.com.

Kris Harrington: [: 00:09:00

Jim Mayer: Um. It's leadership in manufacturing, specifically skilled trades, but it really, any industry, uh, for the last 50 plus years has been built on power and command and control.

And they look at, uh, power as being the most important part of being a leader. Um. They try and be the smartest person in the room. They try and lead with authority, instead of empathy. Um, and what the studies show, what I try and teach people is, as a leader, your job isn't to be the smartest person in the room.

it's to lead [: 00:10:00

And Then fill the gaps around you and build a team of people that share the vision, share the values that you have, that have the skillset to truly make your organization great.

Kris Harrington: Yeah. You know, I, I love that message and knowing that I had a chance to see you speak earlier this year at the Industrial Marketing Summit.

really connected with that. [: 00:11:00

I'm curious. How that message is connecting with, uh, people and what your feedback is when they go out with that message back to the office?

Jim Mayer: Uh, depends on the generation, depends on the individual. Um, I, I say generation just because more times than not there are certain generations who. Take that message and run with it in a positive way.

Lori Highby: Mm-hmm.

lligence, to be able to know [: 00:12:00

Lori Highby: Mm-hmm.

Jim Mayer: Um, then we tend to have good conversations. But there were some people in that room that were leaders or are leaders and did not like the message that I gave. Uh, I was in Nashville last week, uh, speaking at the Quality Show South, and I. Talked very similarly about how leaders can build a culture of quality in their facilities.

ch for spending time with me [: 00:13:00

Right. I, the, there are just some people that, the message that I speak mm-hmm. Won't get through to, and uh, that's okay. I'm not for everybody. My message is not for everybody. It's not meant to be for everybody. It's meant to be for the people who want to lead in a more human-centric way, uh, and want to ultimately in the long run, retain and recruit the right people for their organization.

Right. Yeah. Because this is what, uh, this kind of mindset leads to. I hope.

Kris Harrington: Yeah, and I think it's also for people who want to work for those people. Right? Your message is a reminder that if you're working for somebody that is only after power and other, you have a choice, right? Absolutely. So every day the message is for both.

Yeah.

do, which is ultimately then [: 00:14:00

Jim Mayer: Absolutely. Yes. Uh, I, I think that continuous improvement, continuous learning journeys, uh, is what makes certain leaders successful, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, the best of us as leaders, successful. If you look at becoming a leader as a destination, not as a stop in the journey, then. You're going to stop learning.

iddle of your story. And any [: 00:15:00

The needs of people that work for you will constantly be evolving. So you need to constantly be evolving and learning how to lead those people in different ways. You could have somebody today, uh, work for you that is, you know, uh, very accountable, very, you know. Uh, organized human being Tomorrow, you could get somebody in that role that is not, and you have to lead those two human beings very differently.

Uh, so if you're not constantly learning, that should be part of every leader's daily work is learning, uh, taking some new skillset in, uh, the leadership world and learning, and then taking and practically applying it to their job.

person that deems himself a [: 00:16:00

Mm.

Jim Mayer: Those are bosses. 'cause that is a different person. Bosses.

Lori Highby: Those are bosses. Bosses,

Jim Mayer: yeah. So I, I have people categorized as leaders and, and you don't need a title to be a leader, right? Yeah. That is somebody who. Recognizes, motivates, holds people accountable, is very empathetic and emotionally intelligent.

Right? But they're, they're great at getting the team to move forward in whatever form that looks. Um, then you've got management, right? And that is, uh. Somebody who focuses more on tasks. They, they focus on getting things done. They may not lead people to get there, but they demand that they get there.

Don't motivate. They're very [: 00:17:00

The people that I would want to go work for. Mm-hmm. Those are the people who, uh, typically have the innate leadership skillset, but aren't usually the best at being a machinist or being a welder, or a coder, or an engineer, whatever it is. So they don't then get promoted into leadership positions. They do their job, they do it well, but they motivate from the floor.

adership, but let's get more [: 00:18:00

Jim Mayer: Yeah, great question. I, uh. Uh, quick backstory and I'll make it as quick as I possibly can. Uh, I did my MBA, um, and finished in 2016. Uh, in 2016. There were a lot of platforms that were being released that, uh, were employee engagement platforms. Uh, but all of these platforms measured employee sentiment. Um.

For Desked employees, people who sit behind a desk all day. And, and not that there's anything wrong with that, um, but that's where these platforms were focusing. That's where the, the turnover stats were staggering, et cetera, et cetera. And so as part of my MBA, uh, my final project, I created an employee engagement.

list employees. Mm-hmm. Um, [: 00:19:00

Um, to just give these owners, these leaders, uh, an idea of how their employees were feeling. I didn't do any analysis for them, I just did the surveys. Uh, I left the nonprofit, uh, went and worked for, uh, an OEM and then launched my company in in 22 over the. Last three years of my company and the previous, I'd say eight, uh, four years, uh, of collecting, I've now collected 300 [00:20:00] employee engagement surveys for manufacturers.

So I have a lot of data that I can look at and say, okay, where are the biggest leadership gaps? Back to your question, uh, within manufacturing. And a lot of it comes down to, uh, walking the walk. And talking the talk, right? Uh mm-hmm. Leaders are asking their employees to have a certain level of accountability that they don't hold themselves to.

Mm-hmm. Uh, transparency, emotional intelligence, being able to put themselves in other people's shoes and empathy. Uh, so there was this entire, uh, this massive amount of data that I had that said, okay, I've got. What could be a continuum, uh, or a learning pathway for somebody? So I started by looking at the individual contributors at the employees.

l starts. And I've got a, a. [: 00:21:00

Right? Uh, I've got that individual contributor, uh, workplace skills to, to thrive, not just survive.

Um, and then that goes into, uh. One of the workshops that I'm doing out on my workshop tour this year, and it's becoming management material, and that talks about that transition from individual to contributor to uh, uh, a manager or a leader within the the shop floor. This is for those individual contributors that are the best machinists.

ey've worked next to for the [: 00:22:00

And so there becomes a really toxic environment because best friends stay best friends and they get favorable treatment. And then somebody who was over here who may have, you know, uh, rubbed, uh, somebody the wrong way, they get different treatment. So I, I. Coach people and I, I facilitate this workshop on how do you make that transition from individual contributor to leader.

ined so far and build a high [: 00:23:00

Um, around you. And the very last one that I have, uh, uh, so far, and I'm still developing other ones, but after, uh, the high performing teams, I've got performance management. One of the biggest issues that I see in a lot of manufacturers is performance management, uh, e especially that small to medium size.

Uh, either they don't have a program. Set up, or it's a one and done, uh, event that happens every year. It's not a process where people are actually learning and growing from past mistakes and, and celebrating wins and all of the things. So, uh, at this point, that's the, the end of the continuum. But I do have a couple, uh, uh, built for the future.

We'll, and maybe we can have a follow up episode on that.

e a system, a continuum. Um, [: 00:24:00

Kris Harrington: Yeah, absolutely. I also like that, um. It. It just seems incredibly valuable for people on the shop floor, which don't often get the training or the opportunity to be trained in the same way that the office staff does, just in my own experience. Yeah, and often what they are getting trained is either I.

Lean or Six Sigma, um, which is again, very typically project focused and not the development of the human in, in the way that you're speaking of. So I really like that. I think that's, yeah.

Jim Mayer: Uh, people skills have been ignored as long as manufacturing has been around, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, at least out on the shop floor, uh, we're not, uh, working to develop.

o develop accountability. We [: 00:25:00

That much different of a working environment than an office. Um, and, and I think that's part of the problem and stigma that this industry has had for so long as we look at it as a different place of work. I.

Lori Highby: Mm-hmm. So I'm, I'm curious how we got culture and, um, is a big part of this too then, right? It's not just, it's not just leadership and, and identifying those that can grow, but it's the whole ecosystem of the organization.

the whole organization. And [: 00:26:00

Jim Mayer: Yeah, great question. Um, every company has a culture.

Lori Highby: Mm-hmm.

Jim Mayer: Um, it's. Just a matter of whether you're intentional with what that culture looks like or not, that makes it a good or a bad place to work. Right. Can we t-shirt that or

Erin Courtenay: something? Yeah. I just wanna bracket that. That was a, that's a quote that I just.

Ooh, that was good. Okay. That was good. All

down most simplistically to [: 00:27:00

That's the most base way that I can explain culture. If an an employee walks in the door and they align with the organization's values, then you've got a good culture. If you, they don't, then typically you have a toxic culture, right? And you can build from there. But it's a matter of building with intention.

And a lot of manufacturers, a lot of companies in the skilled trades as a whole, they look at their values as words that they throw up on a wall. And it's typically like integrity and cooperation and there's no meat, there's nothing behind that. Those are just words, right? You have to talk about what those mean to you as an organization.

words that are put up there? [: 00:28:00

You can't coach that. That's something that's intrinsic to, to who people are. Right. Um. And so often, especially in skilled trades in the last 20 years, we have. Hired the first person that walks in the door that can fog a mirror. Right. Um, because we have been so lacking in this workforce development pipeline that we will just take anybody, it doesn't matter if they align with our values or not.

% turnover in manufacturing [: 00:29:00

They would have new recruit classes, new training classes every two to three weeks. Mm-hmm. The cost behind that is astronomical. If you just start hiring for culture and for values. You don't have that, you reduce that. I mean, the companies that I've worked with have lowered their turnover by some of them up to 40%.

I hit that answer, Lori, or, [: 00:30:00

Lori Highby: My, my brain's all over the place. And you, you know, one of the things you, you kind of loosely touched on, I think it's so important, is getting everyone on the same page as far as what the definition of those buzzwords are. Like what does accountability mean to you? Because everyone's got a different, you know.

Thought process or perspective or unique experience. And they may say, oh yeah, I agree with, let's be accountable. But it may be in someone's mind completely different than what you are thinking the definition of accountability is. And that's having those open, honest conversations and you're, talk to your point on the front end.

Even in the interviewing process. Let, let's make sure we're on the same page with what this means. Yeah. Hey,

Jim Mayer: I, and I'll go even further in the process in that, Lori, in the job posting, right? Yeah. You put it on Indeed. You put it on LinkedIn, you put it on Monster. I don't even know if Monster Jobs is still a thing or whatever is out there, right?

in one sentence. Um, but if [: 00:31:00

Lori Highby: 100% agree with that.

Jim Mayer: Yes. Yeah. And, and so if you've got great branding that shows that culture, shows those values, shows your vision and your mission, you're going to attract and recruit. And retain the right people that fit your culture instead of that person who can fog a mirror.

Lori Highby: Totally. And I, I preach this and we've even done some of this for some of our manufacturing clients.

s gonna connect and resonate [: 00:32:00

Absolutely.

Erin Courtenay: But leadership has to know what the culture is. They have to be able for sure to describe it and not in a way that they think people want to hear, because in my experience, I think. People can be, not exactly chameleons, but they adapt. So, I mean, we all adapt to the new culture where, you know, we change jobs or maybe we start, a new company has a new culture, we adapt, but it's very difficult to adapt.

And when you don't have the signals and the signals are yes, they're not just the signs on the wall and they're not just the words, they're, they're much more. Uh, intangible.

Lori Highby: Okay.

ost employees, certainly not [: 00:33:00

But when that, when it's sort of. Undefined. And, and, and also the worst is when it's inauthentic, when the words are on the wall. But that's not what you're seeing happen day to day. You start to break down yourself and not be the best person you wanna be because you're not finding the signal, you know? So, absolutely.

Um. I, I think this is, is, is really important. And the difficulty cannot be overstated.

Jim Mayer: Yeah.

Erin Courtenay: If you don't have it. Yeah.

Jim Mayer: Yeah. And, and, and it, it can't be changed overnight. And that's the thing is, is I get hired by a lot of organizations that expect me to walk in and do, uh, uh, an employee engagement assessment.

not. Mm-hmm. I mean, this is [: 00:34:00

An industry that values data and ROI to look at culture and say, I need to change this because they can quantify what. A machine tool will do. Bringing that in, they can predict what their ROI is going to be. They can't predict an ROI on humans, and so that's why Erin, to that point, that's why that falls off a lot is because people in this industry and skilled trades in general who are so used to operating on data and ROI, that it's very hard for them to quantify the human side of culture.

n Courtenay: And you can see [: 00:35:00

Jim Mayer: Yeah, just

Erin Courtenay: do that.

Jim Mayer: Yeah, exactly. And, and it, it, it's. It's default, it's, you know, the, the way that we learned on playgrounds to how, how leadership is done, it's how we learned in books, how leadership was done from history class, how leadership was done.

Um, there's not a whole lot of like positive examples in literature of like human-centric leaders, right? And so you don't model that growing up. And, and so it's all learned behaviors and um. Yeah. So it, that, it, it very easily is that default.

I just listening to you talk [: 00:36:00

Mishandling the culture piece because you're bringing two different cultures together. Yeah. And it's such a critical moment because you're bringing these companies together to gain something.

Lori Highby: To

Kris Harrington: create the synergies that you believe are valuable to your customers and to the markets that you serve. And whether it's to diversify or make yourself stronger in a given space.

now this piece gets missed a [: 00:37:00

Jim Mayer: And, and Kris, that's a phenomenal point, and I'm gonna make a statement. It does not mean that all private equity is bad, but typically private equity, when they make acquisitions, do not look at that human side.

Lori Highby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jim Mayer: Typically, when. Companies acquire, or there's an acquisition that's done, a merger that's done.

There is that process. What they don't take into consideration is the length of time. Again, that it takes to define that they think that the company that is making the acquisition is just going to, you know, absorb this company and everything's gonna be great.

Lori Highby: Mm-hmm.

Jim Mayer: It's not, it never works that way.

uman beings who have aligned [: 00:38:00

And I, I actually recommend that happen before the acquisition happens. Oh, for

Lori Highby: sure. Mm-hmm.

Jim Mayer: Um, because if you don't, you could be setting yourself up to. Really fail. Right? And failure's not a bad thing, but when people's livelihoods are on the line, it, there's a, a different stake to it. Private equity, going back to that point, typically doesn't care.

looking not to just acquire. [: 00:39:00

They're just trying to maximize their profit. And so that, that really hurts the people within this industry as well. Uh mm-hmm. And I've started to see Kris. To your point about the shop, this happening every day, I've started to see more and more shops just closing, um, and shuttering their doors instead of selling.

, uh, great, great shops for [: 00:40:00

Um, and people just aren't communicating that. They're looking at leaving.

Kris Harrington: Yeah,

Erin Courtenay: yeah, yeah. That's, I'm. I'd love to do another show on this topic. I know alone, I have so many comments and the observations and, um, I mean, just, just quickly, I think that the default is to tell everyone it's gonna be not, it's gonna be the same, even if it's not point.

That's just like the, the deep down desire to say it's not gonna be any different. I, I've heard that many times. And, um, that's. That's not true, first of all. Yeah. And you're gonna have a bunch of people that are disappointed. So anyway,

Jim Mayer: I'd love to do another episode with you, Erin. Yeah, that'd be great.

Lori and Kris, anytime you want, I, I'm here for you.

ay to frame it up at the end [: 00:41:00

Uh, we'll pay off in the end too. So you have all the rewards when you, when you're focused on the right things. So thank you for all of that, Jim. Absolutely. Um, should we move to our next segment? I just learned, let's, that's do it. Yeah. Erin, I'm curious, what'd you just learn?

Erin Courtenay: Well, it begins with a story.

ting to build a nest for her [: 00:42:00

So anyway, I wanted to know like, what's the jeopardy here? Like when is she going to get the message and try somewhere else? And so what I learned is that it's about four days after the nest is complete. That the eggs, that she lays the eggs. So I'm hoping she'll just come on lady, move on somewhere else.

Not my porch le. So that's what I learned four days. Interesting. What about you, Lori?

Lori Highby: Ooh, this is a fun one. Um, yesterday, first time I experienced this, I went to a new site to use this tool that I, I learned about. Um, and as I was kind of setting up my account, you know, that, that standard question, how did you hear about us that's on the website?

the tool through chat, GPT, [: 00:43:00

To help them ultimately solve whatever problem they're trying to solve for. Mm-hmm. So that was kind of a big light bulb, like this is insane. First time I saw it and I just thought it was really cool that AI was actually what drove me to this, this tool.

Kris Harrington: Yeah, no, I like that. Recommended by AI and search everything optimization.

I haven't heard that yet. So thank you for

Erin Courtenay: question, Lori.

Kris Harrington: Yes.

hey have been engineering in [: 00:44:00

Lori Highby: Okay. Oh yeah, there, there's a whole strategy around making sure that your brand shows up when someone is searching or leveraging AI tools.

Yeah.

Kris Harrington: Wow. And you can source back to your sites. Mm-hmm. Like you want to be the source that you wanna be, the source you bring, they're bringing you back

Lori Highby: to your site. Mm-hmm. I could do a whole episode on that topic. There we go.

Kris Harrington: We have like five episodes from this episode. Kris, what about you? Well, I just learned that Cyndi Lauper's on Tour Tour and she's coming to Milwaukee.

ght it to my attention and I [: 00:45:00

Erin Courtenay: Cool. She's awesome.

Kris Harrington: Favorite Cyndi Lauper song, I guess, were you guys fans all through

Erin Courtenay: the

Lori Highby: night?

Kris Harrington: Through the night. All

Lori Highby: through

Kris Harrington: the night.

Lori Highby: If I heard songs, I would know it was her. But you, I couldn't Oh, she, I'm sorry. Colors.

Kris Harrington: Yeah, true colors. Uh, girls just wanna have fun. That's good. Girls

Lori Highby: just wanna have fun.

Do have girls just wanna have

Kris Harrington: fun. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yep. Cool. All right, Jim, we want you just learn.

tel that occurred back in the: 1920

These large manufacturers of light bulbs conspired, uh, to ensure that light bulbs did not burn for longer [00:46:00] than a a thousand hours. And it was basically these manufacturers planning obsolescence of their bulbs to continue to gain power and market share. Uh, and that still. Occurs today. Mm-hmm. Which blows my mind, right?

Mm-hmm. And so, uh, it's just, it's wild how long light bulbs can actually burn if the manufacturer would allow them to.

Lori Highby: Wow.

Ohio in. And put into use in: 1908

And it is still burning to this day in 2025. It's

Erin Courtenay: an incandescent label.

Jim Mayer: Wow. It's one of the old Edison ones with the film, but it's Oh, with the film. Yeah. It is burning.

Erin Courtenay: It's super [: 00:47:00

Jim Mayer: We built that to last. Um, and so, oh, cool.

It, it just, it. I look at cars, cars are planned to be obsolete. Phones, computers, everything that we use is, is planned to be obsolete, right? Yeah. Um, and, and so it's just, it's wild how things can be built in a very intentional way, going back to our earlier part of the conversation, uh, very intentional way, but we're, we're choosing not to.

And, and so kind of like blows my mind a little bit. That's what I've learned.

Lori Highby: Such a good one. Fascinating. That's really, yeah. Thank you. That's a whole nother episode on its own

Jim Mayer: planned obsolescence. I would love it.

Erin Courtenay: It just frustrates me. I don't wanna go there. I know, I know.

Kris Harrington: Alright, Jim, this has been wonderful.

e that they do, how can they [: 00:48:00

Jim Mayer: Best way to get ahold of me is search on LinkedIn. Uh, that's, that's the easiest, best way. Uh, I'm in a giant bathtub full of orange ping pong balls, uh, as my LinkedIn photo. Uh, just type in Jim Mayer. I'm there. Uh, they can also get me, uh, my email is jim dot me@themfgconnector.com, or uh, call me (480) 532-2717 I I.

Anybody can call me at any time. I'd love to hear from any of your, your audience members.

Kris Harrington: Love it. Yeah. All right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much again for being here. Thank you. Uh, this has been great. For everybody out in our audience, go out and make something right.

Jim Mayer: Thank you. [: 00:49:00